Miette
New Member
Happiness is a warm gun
Posts: 6
|
Post by Miette on May 14, 2002 6:29:05 GMT -5
An idea I've been playing with lately. Especially that only individual utopias are possible.
I saw 'A Beautiful Mind' last night. Admittedly not a brilliant movie however it did spark some thoughts. I think the human mind currently has so much potential and that the education system is one of its main adversaries. It stunts development and creates frustration during the most crucial forming of the mind.
My other major qualm can be illustrated by just one sentence in the New York Times May 11 by Emily Eakin. "...that for a belief to be valid it must be held by a person whose mental faculties are functioning properly."
PROPERLY? Why is normality considered of greater value? Wouldn't the possibility of truly original thought be more likely to come from what would be called an 'abnormal' mind?
What do you think?
What would your utopia be like?
|
|
|
|
Post by luceluna on May 14, 2002 6:49:05 GMT -5
i think utopia = death.
why the hell is she writing for the NYT? what a load of crap!
|
|
|
|
Post by ScaryDan on May 14, 2002 6:56:22 GMT -5
i'm not overly religious, but surely death leads to some sort of afterlife, or reincarnation, so isn't saying "death" as your utopia really just rolling the dice to see what you might end up with? not knocking/abusing/saying you're wrong or anything...just a thought i had.
my utopia is where i can get by doing what i want to do, and without my need to buy things all the time. be completely and utterly independent basically, and only "need" people on a "barter" basis - i do something for you, you do something for me. i mightn't be making much sense, i'm not too good at explaining things and reading that it all looks a bit sterile, but its right in my head.
|
|
|
|
Post by dirtgirl on May 14, 2002 9:14:56 GMT -5
When you are dead, you are dead. Fini. Afterlives, reincarnations and utopias are all devices invented by man throughout the ages as a means to help explain the point of existence. As what is the point, if upon death, we cease to exist? Does that mean life is ultimately meaningless and comes to nought at the end? One's immortality lives on in the memory of those left to remember...
How does one define a properly functioning mind? What’s the criterion for this? By whose definition do we accept what is normal or abnormal? What are the facts that we can benchmark this statement against? Given that some of the greatest minds to have ever contributed to humanity could have been described as 'abnormal' raises a lot of big questions about what is normal or not. Is my reality your reality? I think philosophers, the religious and scientists have been debating this one since the year dot! Are we any closer to understanding the nature of consciousness and the mysteries of the mind? I agree Miette, making definitive statements about so called 'properly functional mental faculties’ is like walking through a minefield...
|
|
Miette
New Member
Happiness is a warm gun
Posts: 6
|
Post by Miette on May 15, 2002 7:28:20 GMT -5
Scary Dan have you ever read a book called Utopia by Sir Thomas Moore? In his utopia there is a barter system and interesting points to be made about religion.
Alex, I wasn't talking about a utopia as a kind of heaven but as a workable concept on earth which is in my opinion impossible. In terms of the mind question I think that modernist society dictates what is normal and, partly through the education system, it attempts to manipulate minds into fitting properly into the mould of a successful modern human being. This is of course only an incredibly limited view of success and perhaps the most easy to attain. Not necessarily personal satisfaction but the appearance of wealth, nice realtionships and apparent happiness.
|
|
|
|
Post by just a girl on May 15, 2002 8:04:27 GMT -5
just to clear things up for you alice. i am alex, dirtgirl is dianne. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by dirtgirl on May 15, 2002 21:05:12 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing up the confusion, alex! ;D I agree, achieving utopia is like trying to reach infinity. It is impossible because human beings are imperfect, therefore the corollary of this line of logic would be that utopia, which is by definition a perfect state, would therefore be unattainable. This would hold true for individuals as well as states.  I also agree with your comments about so called normalacy. I think the present definition of success and normalcy in so called western civilisation (I use the last word loosely  ), has a lot to do with the fact that we don't live in a state of true freedom but are subjugated to a corporatist state of mind, where conformity equals success and stability, and hence 'nirvana'. Which sounds a bit like a living hell to me, but anyways... *DG leaps of the soapbox  * |
|
|
|
Post by luceluna on May 15, 2002 23:29:23 GMT -5
i think that perhaps we're going about this the wrong way. the idea of utopia, as we conceive it, is one where we are "happy." it doesn't take into account the attraction to darkness and the benefits of struggle. to be content (which, i would argue, is more what utopia is about than "happiness") i believe that humans need to experience both the Yin and Yang... they need the distraction, the lessons and the sense of strength that enduring and overcoming obstacles provides them. then again, i don't believe in contentment... |
|
|
|
Post by dirtgirl on May 16, 2002 6:17:43 GMT -5
good point Dan! I agree, to appreciate bliss you must know sorrow and growth is acheived through struggle. Maybe this is the point of existence! why don't you believe in contentment? |
|
|
|
Post by luceluna on May 16, 2002 23:10:59 GMT -5
*sigh* my headspace. maybe i'm too self-absorbed to believe anyone could be content if i'm not. i don't know. next topic! lol i take it you DO believe in contentment then? |
|
|
|
Post by dirtgirl on May 17, 2002 8:18:39 GMT -5
No. I'm scared of contentment...it just suggests that there is nothing more. I'd rather feel the edge of the envelope, lie outside my comfort zone... at least that way I know I'm living, not meerly existing.
|
|
|
|
Post by luceluna on May 18, 2002 5:36:58 GMT -5
.... which comes back to the idea of utopia encompassing darkness. i will try to refrain from star wars imagery (just saw it - will post a thread in a second) |
|
|
|
Post by dirtgirl on May 20, 2002 7:15:03 GMT -5
Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't understand where you are coming from Luce....
|
|
|
|
Post by luceluna on May 20, 2002 7:30:06 GMT -5
well, dirty ( ), that's what i'm trying to say in the above posts. darkness, essential to the human condition, will be a part of any human utopia because it IS essential. this implies that you need something other than blissful happiness. your utopia encompasses darkness. as does everyones (i would argue). i think it's time for bed, this is giving me a headache |
|
), has a lot to do with the fact that we don't live in a state of true freedom but are subjugated to a corporatist state of mind, where conformity equals success and stability, and hence 'nirvana'. Which sounds a bit like a living hell to me, but anyways... 
*